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Understanding Humanity:
Interview with Richard Lettieri
By Carin Chea
Richard Lettieri isn't just a renowned neuropsychologist and psychoanalyst. He is a master - no, the master - in understanding the nuances that composite the human spirit.
An advocate and maverick in the field of forensic psychology, Lettieri's long-standing career has made him one of the foremost voices in understanding the criminal mind.
Though a prolific professional writer, Decoding Madness is actually Lettieri's first book, and it is long-awaited, to say the least.
Decoding Madness is not simply a case study, but an exploration into how compassion, justice, and psychology can work together for the greater good.
Being a forensic neuropsychologist and psychoanalyst wasn't your childhood dream. How did you get to where you are now?
Years ago, I was working as a consultant in a hospital. A patient came in, and the judge wanted someone who didn't work in the court system to evaluate her. They needed an independent set of eyes. The judge liked my reports and referred me to be on the expert witness panel.
Initially, I took very few cases because I was doing mental disability law and psychoanalysis.
After 4 years, I took on more cases and it grew. It's very interesting. It resonates very well with my training as a psychoanalyst; in forensic cases, I feel my psychoanalytic training allowed me to focus on the person's subjective life.
You get very comfortable with dwelling on someone's internal life. Most of these cases require a focus on the defendant's mental state at the time of the offense. Knowing how and when to listen, knowing when to probe and not - it served me well.
Some of the defendants not only have psychological problems, but many of them have histories of abuse. Many also have cognitive deficits - they've been in bar fights, for example, and have been hit across the head.
There is a dimension of psychoanalysis that focuses on the biological. So with these considerations, I decided to get formal training in neuropsychology.
Working in the criminal justice system, it's important to consider all the roots of behavior. There's so much raw emotionality, so it's necessary to take look at the range of behavior that we're all capable of, and assess for all possible factors causing some of these heinous behaviors.
Tell us about your book Decoding Madness.
I try to address and describe what is the "daimonic." I spell it in the Greek way because what I'm trying to capture is not devilish human nature, but what people are capable of - they're capable of being good and bad, of being saints and sinners.
The question is: Why does it come out with some people and not others? Why do some people (and it's mostly men) commit such horrendous crimes?
I have a lot of different cases and I explore them in depth.
What was the impetus to write this book?
I've been doing this for 25 plus years. In the criminal justice system, there's tremendous opportunity to see the range of human nature. That's why I became a psychoanalyst. The range of experience I've accumulated, from evaluating so many patients in combination with my private practice - I've seen the whole range of people.
There are those who are high-functioning; they still have dark impulses but can regulate them. What went wrong with some of these defendants that they went on the daimonic spectrum and set off the dark side?
For instance, I have a couple I describe in my book from my private practice. They're both doctors. The woman in the relationship is an expert in chemistry. She said, "Sometimes I get so frustrated with him [my partner] that I think about poisoning him."
So, she felt these things, but she wasn't going to act on them. I felt very confident on that. I didn't feel she was a danger to others; I didn't feel the need to hospitalize her. She was able to control her impulses.
I also work with people who have difficulty with impulse control because they're psychopaths or because they're mentally ill. One of these cases - this kid was in his late 20s, and he was very psychotic.
But, the family didn't realize it because when he wasn't psychotic, he was very close and caring to his mother who was his caretaker. He was schizophrenic.
One morning, his mother was walking to the kitchen. He walked behind her with a knife, stabbed her in the back, killing her. The family was devastated. He went to trial and it went well - he was found not guilty by reason of insanity.
In my chapter, "Ties that Blind," I address how this family could not understand the depth of mental illness. But when someone's in the throes of serious illness they're just not themselves.
What do you want your readers to take away from your book?
I hope readers begin to understand the nature of mental illness and that not all people who are adjudicated who are insane, get away with it. Only 1% of cases who go to trial are insanity cases and only a small percentage are found to be insane.
I have a case where this woman killed her baby, stabbed her. This woman was clearly psychotic. The night before it happened, her husband brought her and the baby to another family member's home so she wouldn't be alone. Her husband, was sympathetic and understood.
The woman was going through a dark depression and she was getting worse and worse. They took her to a psychiatrist but she didn't want to take the medication. The next day she stabbed her baby. The jury found her guilty.
The prosecution said that she was trying to get even with her husband for using drugs. But, the husband used drugs over 7 years ago, and had been drug-free for years. The husband was very supportive of her, and the family testified on her behalf. But, the prosecution kept hammering their case that she was an angry woman who was trying to get even.
So, you see, it's very hard to win a case on insanity.
The range and potential for all human beings to do good and bad, to go from wicked to the sublime - there are factors and issues that make certain people more vulnerable to the dark spectrum.
Some of its biological; some people are born with certain temperaments. Especially within the issues of bonding and attachment; if there's an interruption with their bonding - it's going to be hard for them to become socialized.
Someone like that who is abused, for example, with poor histories of attachment - they're going to be very dangerous when they grow up.
Then there might be some people who have this temperament, but that person came from a supportive family. They might grow up to be a navy seal, someone who requires a tough core. They might have a different outcome. I hope by reading the book there might be a broader understanding of the fragility of us all.
I hope to emphasize the importance of self-awareness and self-reflection. This develops by having had adequate attachment history and good early bonding experiences. This allows one to develop an ability to be empathic, to understand oneself and others, and leads to an ability for self-control and self-regulation.
As a result, your identity is wrapped around the experiences you've had in life so that you're not, in the heat of the moment, affected by the social pull and give in to the demand of the moment. That leads to a sense of integrity in your behavior.
What is the most memorable case you've had as a psychologist?
There was another case from years ago. A young man, about 19, was in his room and he was stabbing the wall because he heard voices coming from it. This was a working-class family who didn't understand mental illness. His father had simply told his kid to cut it out. Unfortunately, within a week, he killed his mother.
In criminal justice, sometimes the people who are supposed to be doing the right and just thing are doing unjust things. I went to evaluate this guy and I could see he was terrified. Even before I could introduce myself, he said, "Get me out of here. I have to get in protective custody."
He told me: He was sweeping the floor like he was told to do, when another inmate, a gang member, told him to move because they were going to throw a rival gang member off of the top tier.
The defendant said, "I tell the deputy and the deputy says, 'Mind your fucking business next time.'" He asked to be put in protective custody and the deputy said, "I'm not putting you in protective custody. Go and sweep the damn floor!" There's a level of machismo that goes on within the criminal justice system.
I have evaluated literally over 1000 cases. My book has maybe 13 or 14, and they're very memorable. I have so many cases that I can't write about because they're too notorious. I couldn't maintain confidentiality because it would be clear who they are.
In a couple of cases, one in particular which was very high profile - this man would gladly give me permission to write about it - but I couldn't do it because there are too many victims and families of the victims.
Before I wrote this book, I consulted with the American Psychological Association and their lawyers regarding maintaining confidentiality. The attorney stated I wasn't legally accountable to these families, but I was ethically bound. Ethically, it was just clearly wrong to put people through that and expose them to that heartache again.
There are certainly no shortages of crime shows these days, and plenty with expert psychologists such as yourself. How true-to-life are these procedural shows?
The criminal justice system has a lot of problems. But the law does tries to differentiate different kinds of human behaviors that are unacceptable, and tries to do it in a reasonably compassionate way.
Some of these shows are caricatures of what happens and they don't portray the complexities of the cases. I roll my eyes when I hear the experts testify. They seem so sure of themselves. They're not anxious at all.
In general, cases are very complicated, but on television, it has to be streamlined, and the characters seem overly simplified. So I'm considering doing a second book for the general public.
Do you have any upcoming books you'd like to tell our readers about?
This is my first book. I've done mostly professional writing.
I'm thinking of different projects. I have another publisher who wants me to write a book for professionals. I really enjoyed writing a narrative and a book that was accessible to the general public. I find it very worthwhile at this point in my life.
You asked me about crime shows. I think I could help the media portray characters in a more realistic light, with more real-life psychological complexity.
Capturing the range of and depth of emotional conflicts raised in the justice system would make, I think, for more of a more entertaining show.
For more information, please visit CrimePsychologist.com.
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